Carolyn: Welcome back to another episode of Uniquely Small Biz by Selective Insurance, a podcast for small business owners to share their inspiring stories. I'm Carolyn McCardle, and we are so excited to be bringing you another round of insightful conversations with small business owners who are as unique as their ventures.
On today's episode. I'm speaking with owner and operator of George's Drains, George DeJesus. He is here today to speak with us about how he built his exciting small business, how he's changing the way people view trades, and some of the ways we can educate and inspire the next generation. So get ready for Uniquely Small Biz brought to you by Selective Insurance.
Carolyn: I know this is, for the most part an audio podcast, but I will tell people listening that behind George, there's a wall of what appears to be stickers. You were telling me before we started the story of those stickers. So can you tell everybody what the deal is?
George: On social media, which is mainly Instagram, most of us all created like our own logos for our page. The logos became stickers, and then we started a sticker swap.
So we basically trade stickers from all, mainly around the world. Today, I shipped out stickers today to Indonesia, Canada. A lot of UK stickers, they go everywhere. It doesn't really matter. If they’re a plumber and they ask for stickers, they get sent out. It doesn't really matter where they go.
And I get the same thing, I have stickers. I have half the bottom of the board behind me is still empty, which I’ve got to fill more stickers. So, there's some vendors up there, but the majority behind me are – I’d say about 99%, 95% - are probably plumbers.
Carolyn: It's like a brotherhood, right? I mean not just - you're in New Jersey - it's not just New Jersey. It's nationwide. It's worldwide that you're trading with Indonesia.
George: The biggest thing I did find is, I know social media wasn't designed for us, especially Instagram wasn't designed for us. It was designed for the kids, but, it really brought us together. We actually, a lot of the trades actually communicate now. They don't really fight with each other anymore.
They actually will ask each other questions and help each other out. It's not what it used to be. It actually opened up that world for us where we're now more friendly to each other. Where before no one will talk to each other. You know, it's really nice? On top of that, we learn different things.
I'm like I'm in New Jersey. Things are done different in California, but now we get to see how it's done. I would never have seen in my entire life until social media, you know? Even if it was on YouTube. I wouldn't look it up, but now if I have a friend who's in California, I see his videos. I'm like, man, I never thought I'll do that. And now I'm trying his way and vice versa, with me as well.
Carolyn: Isn't that neat that that has happened? You know, you referred to how it used to be when it was so competitive and you wouldn't want to get to know your competitor because you want the business, right? You don't want them to have the business, but now they're almost like an ally to you. You guys are all in this together. Like I mentioned earlier, it's a brotherhood.
George: Even locally by us, there is probably 10 plumbers I work with that I send work to and they send work back to me. Because we can't get to everything, just not enough of us. If it's a good job, you know, we might have a friend who might actually want it.
It works both ways - they send work to me, I send work to them and we're not really afraid of the customer situation. Cause there's plenty of customers, not enough of us. So it's not what it used to be.
Carolyn: It's a good problem to have.
George: Yes. Actually had a customer today - I charged her less than my normal service fee to do a job, but she was still in shock by the price.
I'm like, that's less than my actual service fee. It was just, the job was easy, so I just didn't charge you. But she was really, they understand that the job that fast and that's what it costs. I'm like, you have to understand that it's only going to get worse. Better for us, but worse for you because there's less of us.
With the minimum wage going to $15, now you see Amazon hiring $22, $23, $24 per hour for someone to drive a car. We're not going to get apprentices. Why would they want to work for us? Unless they really, really want this trade, they're not going to try to work for us, because they're going to make more driving a truck.
So that's going to affect everything across the board, where now we're going to have to charge more because I have to pay more. Can you imagine that? An 18 year old kid that comes out of high school, wants to be a plumber. It's $1,000 a week. $52,000 a year to at least compete with Amazon. You know, it’s crazy.
Carolyn: But there is money to be made in this industry as a plumber, if you do it the right way, you can be very successful. I mean, what tips would you give to that kid that's coming out of high school that has dreams of running his own business.
George: If I want someone to work for me, I don't talk about the financial part. I want them to have the passion to do the job and understand what going to be for your life and your family before they consider the money.
I mean, it is a motivator, but you have to want to go to work every day. I love my job. I love getting up every day and going to work. If you don't have that, you're not going to be happy, you know? And that's more important to have someone that wants to do this trade and wants to do this the rest of their life because it's career.
It's not just five years - I'm going on 28 years. I mean, I don't see myself not doing this, snd I get up every morning and I love what I do. And that's the passion I want most kids to have. And the nice thing about the social media part is that I think kids are starting to see that there's a spot for them in the trades?
Carolyn: So you've been doing this 28 years. How long have you owned your own business?
George: First time or second time?
Carolyn: Ahhh, there's a story!
George: There is a story there. That was what delayed my second time starting a business. I started my company in August during COVID. I quit my job. I quit a $109,000 a year plumbing job to start my own business - just wasn't happy. I wasn't happy going to work every day. I was not wanting to be there. You know, it was just not a place I wanted to be anymore. I've always been the kind of person where I give a 110% and sometimes you just don't have it. there could be one time you’re burnt out for like a month, just you do so hard and all of a sudden you don't want to do anymore.
So, you could still go to work and do the job, but they still expect the same percentage. They still expect that same George. They still expect that, and you’re not there.
So my wife decided that you know, after we went to one of the trade shows and she talked a lot with the plumbers that have their own businesses and they started telling her, they mentioned to her that technically, you know, I should have my own business.
I have a license, I'm wasted talent. I should have my own business. So, of course that was in my head a little bit. I didn't really want to do, it wasn’t a hundred percent set for it, but, things changed with the business, with the company I worked for, so it kind of just pushed me into it. And I’m happy now.
Carolyn: What are you happiest about as a business owner? What has been the biggest surprise or benefit that you have realized after leaving and starting your own company?
George: So, I expected it to be one, two calls a day. And I said, yeah I can survive with that. That'd be fine. I did nine calls today, so on average, I do about a 100 calls, 140 calls a month. And that I didn't expect, the volume is crazy. I do turn work away. I can't get to every call, some customers do get mad at me, but it's just not possible sometimes. That surprised me the most - is the volume of calls that come in.
And the loyalty I'm getting from customers, which is unbelievable. Customers actually refer me. Facebook's been really huge for me with the groups. Get a lot of calls from there from referrals, you know. I am a licensed plumber, but I don't, that's not my market. I don't market that. I market more of the drain cleaning and to camera inspection part of the trade that no one wants to do.
Because I liked that part of it, plus no one wants to do it. So I kind of liked that a little better.
Carolyn: Yeah. I think that would be a very interesting part of your job because boy, you never know what you're going to find in those drains.
George: Nope. And I camera everything. So it really protects me as much as it shows the customer that I did a good job.
Carolyn: So, what kind of tools are you using? You mentioned cameras. Like what innovative tools or technology are you using?
George: The past couple of years what's changed is cable and kitchen lines. Let’s start with kitchen lines, that is probably the easiest way to do it.
Years ago, what's been done for kitchen lines is either you jet the line, get all the grease out, or you put a cable down, which basically follows the hole. It makes just another hole. The past three years, technology has changed where now we can run what's called chain flails. The chains go in the line.
They actually clean the walls of the pipe as it goes in with minimal mess. And it makes the line, I'll say about 90% back to life again, and removes all the grease in the line and problems go away for customers. That's one of the biggest things that changed probably in the past three, four years.
Carolyn: That's pretty incredible because to me that says that you clean that line so well that, that that customer might not need you out there again right away, because you've done your job. Right? So, I don't know the plumbing world, but is that ever a concern for you?
I mean, obviously you've got more calls than you can handle, but do you ever worry, like, hey I've cleaned this drain so well to the point, this person may never even call me again because they won't need no, I mean, does that happen or is that just like being a good person?
George: For that drain, maybe not, but they'll call me for other things. Because a customer that I enjoy, I talked to and I kind of clicked with, I let them know I'm a plumber and I'm capable of doing other things for them.
So the trust is there now, I explained to them every single time I do. I got the kitchen sink the most, possible when I'm done cleaning the kitchen sink line, the comment I get every single time from everybody is – it’s never drained that way before.
Carolyn: Really?
George: Because I’ve basically opened the line back up again, and I explain that there's a difference between drain clearing and drain cleaning. You know, there is a big difference.
Carolyn: Drain clearing is like a band-aid, that’s eventually going to give.
George: That's what most guys do. They just throw a cable machine down, they clear the line and they leave. Or they throw a camera down and try to sell something else. I try to sell what's necessary, I don't try to oversell. So when I drone a camera down, it's more because there's something wrong and I want to know why. That same idea with the chains, they go bigger so I can do a main line. So, I can actually drone my camera down along with the chains and remove roots while I'm watching myself remove roots. So I can actually remove that problem and the customer could watch it. Technology has changed that part of it for us, which is really, and it's safer.
Carolyn: Probably a lot more accurate too, then you kind of just feeling down there – ‘I hope I got it. We'll see, call me if there's a problem’. Now, you know, because that camera.
George: Yeah. Most guys have cameras, but, I would say not as many as should, but which is fine. It's an expensive investment.
Carolyn: This is why you had nine calls today though. Cause you're a good guy. Your honest work.
George: And five were drains.
Carolyn: Five were drains… hence George’s Drains.
George: It's funny though. My insurance agent, when I started my company says, ‘you’re listed as a plumber, why are you doing drains?’ I'm like, because no one wants to do it.
Carolyn: Great market for it though. You find that hole where nobody is doing the work.
George: And I don't mind it. I don't really get that dirty, I'm pretty cautious. So I know kind of how to avoid getting really dirty. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but 90% of the time I'm not really filthy.
Carolyn: Boy, bonus. You just keep winning.
Carolyn: What would you say makes your business in particular, George's Drains, unique? Why do you stand out?
George: The drain part – it really is kind of like a slight little niche market no one wants to do, you know? And I like that, especially nowadays you have to find that path and you just need to go that direction. That's it, I might venture off a little while and I'll do other things once in a while, but I always go back to drain work. It’s just what I like. Occasionally I’ll put a faucet in you know, or I might do a bathroom renovation, but usually I’m not happy doing it.
Carolyn: I'll do it, but I don't want it. Somebody else can do that. I'll pass that on.
George: I’ll give it to my buddies.
Carolyn: Yeah, exactly. ‘Hey I got a good one for ya!’
George: It's always because I forget why I don't want to do it. And then I take the job and my phone rings like five, six times, and I can't get to the calls, but I'm stuck here.
Carolyn: Yeah, exactly!
George: To answer that question. What I like about my job by far is the excitement of helping someone when they're in a pinch and they might not have called - I was maybe the fifth guy there and I found the problem and I fixed it. I liked that part. That's my favorite - they remember that I took care of it. And now I'm the guy that gonna refer everybody. And I like that.
Carolyn: You're the hero.
George: That's my favorite part.
Carolyn: Do you walk into a job and you're fired up because it's like a game for you? Where you walk in thinking, okay, what's it going to be? I got this call. You're driving over. It's in your head. You're trying to figure it out. You get there, let's go!
George: I do that driving down neighborhoods where I'm going to that job. If I'm going to specific neighborhoods, I drive the neighborhood. The first thing I'm looking for, if it’s a sewer backup, I look for cleanouts on the curb. Cookie cutter houses - it's going to be same spot every house. It might be buried, but it's going to be be the same spot. So, I look for stuff like that and walk into houses and hopefully it's something I could fix really quickly. I try to find out what caused it. I ask a lot of questions.
I had a heating call, about a month ago. The lady had some work done to the boiler, and ever since the work was done on the boiler - which she didn't tell me till later on, I kind of pulled it out of her - when the heat turned off the whole house banked. The original company was out there like five or six times, all different guys. No one could figure it out. So I'm talking to her and asking her and we go upstairs and turn the heat on, it wouldn't do it. I'm there by the way, it wouldn't do it. So we couldn't figure out what it was.
Carolyn: And let me ask you, what's it mean when you say the whole house banked?
George: Most homes are hydronic heating, hot water baseboard. So they have what's called a zone valve. So when a zone valve shuts fast, it basically stops the water and causes water hammer. And with the copper piping, it echoes throughout the whole house. So, she hears that at two o'clock in the morning, like someone's banging on the pipes in the basement.
George: So I'm talking to her and actually just like, I'd spend the time talking, going through the house, turn everything on and figuring out what it was. We realized that the two valves they replaced - the company that put it in, didn't think about looking at that. And that’s what the problem was.
Carolyn: Oh, wow.
George: I fixed the problem and it went away, but it took a lot of asking questions, a lot of figuring out and pulling out of her that they changed the valves, and then I went right to the valves and then that's what it was. But it wasn't as simple as just, I tried, I tried to ask questions.
Um, it might not be the right answer I want to get, but it might eventually help me or click as I'm walking around. Like, oh, that's what they said. You know, I might, I might not be at that point, but I might walk away someplace else and realize that that that's what it was, and that's fun.
Carolyn: It's solving a mystery.
George: Yes! Those are fun. Oh my God.
Carolyn: Every day, multiple times a day.
George: Looking for leaks in houses are fun.
Carolyn: Said you!
George: Well, I have a thermal imaging camera, so it helps.
Carolyn: Everybody needs a George. I need a George my life. Geez. What a score to have you as a friend, right? Or just to have you, you know, on speed dial.
George: All my friends are usually in the trades or do the same thing I do, or are a carpenter, but all want to work with their hands.
Carolyn: It's funny because you seem to be so meant to do what you're doing for a living, this trade for you is such a good fit. But how did you get into this? Were you always good with your hands?
George: I was horrible at school. I was horrible. I still to this day, if I read a book like 10 times, it won't stick. I just, it just I'll fall asleep, get bored. It won't work for me. You put something in my hands, to put together, with a picture I'll do that in a heartbeat. No problem at all.
And I'll figure it out. I've always been better with my hands. My dad was a carpenter, he basically was a GC and he used to do a lot of renovations. My mom worked days, he worked nights. So, when we were off of school instead of daycare or my grandparents, we all went to work with him, so we all played working in a house. And that kind of got me the idea of what I like doing. Sometimes he did some plumbing, minor plumbing in the houses and I enjoyed it. As I got older, it didn't really click too much more until I got to like high school and, you know, and trying to find a path.
And it was a choice - it was computers or plumbing. I think I told this a bunch of times, but one of the landlords we did a lot of work for told me that computers can always be outsourced. Plumbers will never be outsourced. You'll never not have a job. And to this day, I still remember that.
I still don't. I've never, never not had a job. I've had a lot of jobs, but I've never left there not having a job. I left that job, starting the job next day, every single time, you know, and it was never an issue finding a job, you know? So it’s still true to this day. You know, if you're a decent plumber you're not going to have a problem finding a job anywhere.
Carolyn: I think trade work is so important too, you know, not just plumbing – anything. Like, your dad was a carpenter. There are a lot of people that I feel like sometimes look down on trades, like that wouldn't be a good job. You're going to be scraping to get by. It's a lot of physical labor.
Well, okay. So it is physical, but as we talked about sort of in the beginning of this, if you're good at it and you do it the right way, you can be incredibly, incredibly successful, no matter what the trade is.
George: I think most of us as a whole, like social media, are trying to change that whole perception for just trades, not just plumbing and just all the trades. And that really is fun.
I think a lot of videos we post people see that we enjoy what we do. I think it has helped people step up their game to do nicer work. But I think it kind of opened up to the people that they're, the trades is another option. You know, it's a big option.
Across the board, we're all hurting for manpower. Like I said earlier, I mean, that's why our prices are going to go up because if we're going to get anybody we’re either going to steal them for more money or the person's going to want more money to come work for us. So it’s going to affect the end user, it’s going to affect the homeowner.
You know, there’s not enough of us. Really, I mean, all the trades are great. You can pick any trade from roofing to everything - it's you, you would always have a job. Always.
Carolyn: That's so comforting to hear from somebody who works in that industry, who works in a trade. It's very rare that somebody would feel that way. I'm always going to have work, if I do this. That's such a scary leap because you kind of go into it saying, well, I hope George was right, here we go. I'm leaving my career.
I'm going to go be a plumber for a living. And they'll probably find out you were right. And I'm so glad you're saying this, because there could be people listening that are wanting to change their career that are wanting to start their own businesses that are afraid to take the leap. So to hear it from somebody who's done it and who's doing it, is great.
George: I quit my job and started during COVID, right smack in the middle of it and went on my own with no customers.
I mean, I started marketing a little before that, so I kind of started planning it, but I really had nothing. I literally started my business with nothing in the bank, just with my last paycheck. And ran with it. And it's really definitely been… I actually just bought my first new truck. It should be here hopefully next week, I ordered in September. It's been definitely a whirlwind.
It's fun. I mean, I enjoy every single day. There's things that make it easier, like going full digital. There's no paperwork. I could come home at night. I have no paperwork, nothing. So I can spend time with the family. I don't have to go chase billing. I don't have chase estimates. It's all done at the day before I leave the customer's houses.
So I'm not spending a time away from the family. If I'm upstairs, I'm watching TV with my wife.
Carolyn: That's the ideal.
George: All back to technology, makes life a lot easier for us, you know, you’ve just got to learn to use it. I still have friends who do paper invoices.
The accountant must hate them.
Carolyn: Oh yea, can you imagine at tax time?
George: Here’s a whole box. Yeah my accountant is like sales tax? I literally just just send it to her. That's it. And it's done.
Carolyn: Your social media, by the way, I know we've touched on social media a couple of times today. Your social media is good.
I was on your Instagram page specifically, and you have great videos. You have people engaging. And what I also noticed about your social media, that I really like is again, back to the brotherhood, you actually tag other businesses, vendors. You're really good about that and I think that says a lot about you.
A lot of people will be afraid to tag a competition or tagother people. And I really like that you do that. Your Instagram's great.
George: It really helps too, because like, if I post a tool I use, it's simple. If I don't tag where I got it, you know what people don't read it anyway.
And if I put it at the top, some people do, but it prevents me having to type in every single comment where it came from. You know, it makes a big difference. But it really does help them. I chose a vendor that we would have a tool that we use that we actually like it, and hopefully people actually buy from them. And you know we love our tools. You know, I’ve got a big truck - I got 14 foot box truck full of tools.
Carolyn: I'll bet. What do you hope that people take away from your social media?
George: Most of us that hang out and talk to each other a lot, we try to step up our game every single day. We try to find, you know, like right now, I'm bending my pipes for my jobs to make everything look cleaner and nicer. We try to do stuff like that to step up our game and try to make it look nicer and always make it as we call it post-worthy.
Everything has to be post worthy. Every job. Hopefully people follow that path and just like, you know, every job has to be to the point where you want to be proud of it and post it. You want to love doing your job, but you want to be proud of it as well. And every job I do, I really, I mean, especially when I do boilers, I love doing my boilers.
I love doing the piping. Everything has to be perfect. If not, I won't, I won't post it.
Carolyn: I got sucked into a video of you snaking a toilet, or doing something with a toilet, with a machine. I couldn't stop watching. And I'm like, Carolyn, you need to do the interview.
Just sitting here, watching this machine in a toilet and I'm going, wow, this is actually really interesting, you know, and in a good way, I was, I'm telling you, I was literally sucked into this video.
George: But we also use the social media to show what we do. Like, like I said earlier, I've learned from guys in other states and other countries, how they do stuff.
So people will actually take it from me and actually try what I do and people have and they let me know whether it was good or bad, whether they liked it and what they like about it, and they tried it. And I enjoy it. Cause I mean, it's like, it's just like, you're a teacher, which is pretty cool when you're sharing what you do.
Carolyn: I was going to say, it’s like you’re a teacher. That’s cool.
George: And again, I mean, I've learned a lot from other people too. I mean, I've picked up a lot that I've changed from just other posts and people give me ideas and like, yeah, I'm gonna try that. And I still do it that way. It just, it just takes, it takes the same thing, you know?
Carolyn: I like that because it's a lot of people, their answer, when I, when I asked, like, how do you use social media? What are you trying to get out of it? Would be, well, we want to market ourselves and get more customers and that's totally an acceptable answer. But I also like that you use it to learn from other people and to expand your network. To help people
George: So it's funny - my social media page is not linked to my company at all.
Carolyn: What do you mean?
George: I don't get calls from it. It has nothing to do with my company. That social media page is only - so basically my followers and my social media page are basically plumbers and tradespeople. Not homeowners.
Carolyn: Oh, whoa, really?
George: I would say about half… I would say most of them are just in the trades or are trying to learn from what I do.
They're not homeowners. I might have a couple of homeowners that might follow me, but it's not, it's all. It's all tradespeople. Yeah.
Carolyn: That makes sense, based on your content on your page, it would be, and it would also be kind of funny if a plumber left my house and they're like, by the way, follow me on Instagram at George's Drains.
So I get that. I get that, but it - I could also absolutely see how useful that is for people in your industry, learning from each other. I like that, that's cool.
George: I do want to shift over, get that other page working better for my business. That's a different process to make it work. It’s not as easy to make it, you make your phone rings from that.
It's not easy as, as my social media page, my personal one. So, but, I'm learning. I’m trying to get that one to work.
Carolyn: You’re doing great. You're doing great. What's next for you aside from, you know, a page for customers, what's next for your company? I mean, is there a next? You're doing so great now, you're turning people away.
George: I kind of thought about hiring another guy and putting another truck on the road. I'm still kind of on the fence. The workload can handle it, I'm just afraid of someone not being able to do the same quality work I do, or care like I do. And you don't know that, they might work perfectly for you when you're in the house and we get together with them.
Once you leave, they won't tighten that one fitting. They won't do that. And you won't know for like six months, till it floods the house. Cause they just didn't go back and check. I could leave a customer's house and drive down the road and think “did I check that valve?” I'll turn back around. I will literally turn back around and go to the customer, let them know. Say, look, I need to make sure that everything's tight.
You know, if I didn't check that five or six times before I leave, I will come back and check because I can't, it'll be in my head. It would drive me nuts, I won’t sleep. You know, some employees won't do that. They'll just “okay, done.” I'm going home and not care. So that's my only fear. Which, it’s going to have to happen.
It's just natural that’s what's going to happen. I mean, the company's going to grow no matter how I look at it. And you know, if I want to, or not, it's either I lose all my customers because I can't keep them all with the volume I have or I grow the company.
Carolyn: I never thought about that though.
It is such an extension of your reputation. You've worked so hard to build the reputation that you have. So the last thing you want is to take one hit by having somebody that goes out and is really fun. You know, you let's say go to dinner and do this interview or whatever, and you guys vibe, and then they go in and do this job and don't tighten a valve, or whatever.
George: And with reviews, it just takes one review. That’s it, that's all it takes.
It could be for anything; could look at the customer the wrong way and they’ll give you four stars, or even three stars because you’re not perfect. That’s tough as well, too you know?
Carolyn: Boy, I'm excited for you to order that next truck though. I feel like it's coming. You might want to order now based on how hard it is to get trucks. Well, that truck,
George: This truck just cost me because I bought it during COVID, yeah, it's almost basically half of the price of my house.
Carolyn: Yeah. Not surprised at all. Well, I'm happy for you that life is working as it should for you. You've taken some risks, they're paying off, your businesses growing. You've got repeat business. You're tight with your brothers who are, you know, also working in the same field. I mean, it's good stuff.
George: Most of us talk, almost probably every single day. Almost all the time, which is fun. We bounce ideas off each other all the time. You know, that's nothing till we have a resource for each other.
Carolyn: So, so aside from your sort of day-to-day work, George, we understand you spend a lot of time giving back to the community. You got a lot of pride in promoting skilled trades. So can you share a little bit of your work promoting trades in your community?
George: So the last project I'm working with, which actually I'm going to go back tomorrow to finish, to get ready for inspection. The local high school by us, they actually have a trades program. So they have all the senior kids building a modular on the property. It's going to be moved into the same town for a family, in that town.
And it's part of Habitat for Humanity. So the house is literally being built by 17, 18 year olds. I was approached and they deployed me on the project mid-summer last year, because I used to work for habitat for a while during a bad time in the economy. I think it was like, ‘09. So I worked for habitat for a couple of years.
So I already had knowledge working with volunteers and I have patience with working with volunteers. So they asked me and I said, no problem, I’ll do it. Back in December, we actually had I think 17 teenagers doing the plumbing in the house. The top part of house so we can get ready for inspection. It was fun. I would honestly say probably like 10 of those kids probably will go into the trades, but they actually want to be in the trades. They are there to actually learn the trades.
And it was a fun day. It was a stressful day, but a fun day because actually the kids - you could see in their eyes. They actually enjoyed it. I'm gonna go back tomorrow. We've been trying to get the houses ready for inspection so they can go to the next step and move the house to a property. They can finish all the rest of the plumbing once the house is set
Carolyn: How does that feel to know that these kids are looking up to you and you're sort of a role model or a mentor to these kids?
George: I hope that's how they feel. You know, it's hard to see it that way, but I mean, I'm hoping that at least some of the kids feel that the trades is the right choice for them.
That's more important in that at least, hopefully, they want to do and pursue working with their hands. And some of the kids that were there, you could see it, that they really enjoyed working with tools. You know, even if they don't, at least they, pick up some skills when they're homeowners, they can actually work in their own house and maybe try not be afraid to try something before they call somebody makes a difference.
Carolyn: Makes a difference, doesn't it?
George: Yeah. Oh my God, you know what my biggest call is? It’s a leaking toilet, changing a flapper in the toilet is probably my biggest call. That's like the simplest thing.
Carolyn: Okay. Before you even say it, George, I'm going to tell you that if I have a toilet leak, I'm freaking out. I don't know to check a flapper, change a flapper, whatever you just said. I don't know how to do that.
George: I should do a video about that.
Carolyn: But you should, and I would watch your flapper video because I'm telling you that I know you're laughing because it's probably, you could probably do it with your eyes closed. It probably take you 30 seconds to change it. But for a homeowner?
George: Actually, if you look through my feed, I did do it with my eyes closed. I did like three years ago at PHCC in New Jersey. There was a competition. They had two toilets, side-by-side. You got to take all the guts of one toilet blindfolded and assemble it in the other toilet. I did in under, the first time he was 59 seconds pulled one apart and put in the other one blindfolded.
Carolyn: Oh my goodness. This is why you turn certain calls away. You're like, I don't need those flapper calls. I'm good. I want to snake a drain.
George: Yeah, I usually do that when I'm there. Usually, I test people's houses when I'm there, especially if I have time. But no, working with the high-school kids was fun. They're actually doing all of it. They're actually sheet rocking, insulating, everything, which is pretty cool.
Carolyn: That's so cool. I mean, this sense of pride, those kids will have when they can drive by and be like, I did that.
George: They built that house. Like we all do when we drive past the house, like I worked there! Hopefully they're going to have that same feeling as when I drive past that house. I have a couple of other influencers that work with us that are friends that hopefully going to help me when we moved the house to actually do other mechanical second work with the kids doing plumbing, and he can have a group doing the boiler and some, some heating in the house.
So it can kind of split it up a little bit. I'll make a little easier instead of me by myself. I can have a couple more bodies.
Carolyn: That's awesome. You just got to feel great at the end of the day after that. That's fantastic.
George: I can't wait for the ribbon ceremony. That's what I'm waiting for.
Carolyn: That is going to be, bring your Kleenex.
George: Did you watch that video on American plumbing stories?
Carolyn: No, but I was going to ask you how that came to be. Is that on YouTube only? Or can you see that elsewhere?
George: YouTube only, yeah.
Carolyn: Okay. So how did that come to be? We know you're awesome, but there's gotta be a story about how you connected with them.
George: I think they reached out to me. We had already set a date for December to do a project. And then right after that, the high school reached out to me to do the plumbing for them right after that, which is the weirdest thing. Craig Morgan is the host of the show. The teacher is a fan of Craig Morgan, so he found American Plumbing Stories. So he reached out to them and then they realized that the same plumbers working for the high school and for them, and it seemed to work out perfectly. And we just did it all. They did a day following me, and a day working at the high school with the kids.
Carolyn: That is fantastic. You're like a celebrity plumber. That is very cool. Hey, good things come to good people. I mean, that's a true statement. What you put out, you get back.
George: I love what I do.
Carolyn: You're doing all right. It was nice talking to you today. Thanks for being on with us.
George: Oh, thank you. It was, this is fun.
Carolyn: Now, joining us to talk about some of the considerations behind building a small business in the contracting space from an insurance perspective, is Contracting Segment Manager at Selective Insurance, Teresa Cates.
So tell me, Teresa, what are the unique insurance needs of contractors versus retail or even a professional office setting? They’ve got to be different.
Teresa: Yes, they definitely are. A lot of our trade contractors are working for general contractors and those general contractors will have some contractual obligations that they will have to uphold. Usually, that's in the form of holding a general contractor harmless in the event of a claim.
So our trade contractors have to have the proper coverage to satisfy these contract agreements that they are being asked to sign.
Carolyn: So it's like a specific coverage based on what they do. For example, with George and his company, he's doing plumbing. So is there forgive me because I don't know the industry, but is there like plumbing-specific insurance coverage that George would need to have?
Teresa: Not necessarily for general liability is what George would definitely need to have. So if he plumbs a home and I, and listening to his podcast, he actually did a lot of drain clearing. So if something happens in the process of clearing a drain and he, for example, were to flood a home or to flood a large building, he would be responsible for the property damage from that.
And a lot of times they may bring suit against the general contractor. And at that time, the general contractor will probably try to push that claim back down to George. So having the obligation to hold that general contractor harmless and being able to satisfy those contract requirements is very important for George, so he can get jobs for those general contractors.
Carolyn: You know, Teresa, Selective obviously has a deep understanding and an extreme expertise when it comes to contractors. But if you could give one piece of advice to a small business in the contracting space, what would that piece of advice be?
Teresa: I would say, not to shop for the lowest price coverage, because a lot of times, you know, when they say you get what you pay for, that's very common in the insurance business and what I've seen, especially new trade contractors, starting out on their own.
They want to be able to afford the coverage as they look for the least expensive. And a lot of times what they find is they end up getting coverages that are lacking in protection. And the best example I can give is, you know, the exclusions out there for subcontractors. So in the case of George, if he bought a policy that excluded subcontracts, and subcontractors did some jobs for him.
He would have no coverage. So I say to always work with a company like Selective and an agent that represents Selective that we're going to offer you the broadest coverage.
Carolyn: That is such a great piece of advice because you think about somebody who is starting a business, like George is - a plumbing company – and all it takes is one mistake without having coverage that covers you for that little mistake that could wipe out your entire, you know, you're just starting, you're just trying. And it could just be that one thing. It's not worth it.
Teresa: Yeah. I agree.
Carolyn: George uses some really innovative technologies to run his business and I'm sure you have seen all kinds of things like drones and thermal imaging cameras. And I mean, what are some of the other things that you guys have seen from an insurance perspective?
Teresa: Oh, yes. And we're starting to see more and more of that as technology improves. And the latest one I saw was the robotic bricklayer, which could lay bricks, you know, several thousand times quicker than a regular bricklayer. There's also a robot out, I think it's called Spot, that can roam the job site and check on safety. It sends back camera images back to the, the contractor, let them know how how safe everybody's working. So there's a lot of fun technology out there.
Carolyn: That's crazy. I mean, you hate to see people lose jobs, first of all, because those robots are obviously replacing human beings, but when you're talking efficiency, how much quicker and probably more accurate are these, these robots that we're seeing. So it's pretty incredible. With George, you know, in an industry like he's in, social media that presence probably isn't as common, right? But George does a really good job with the social media. What are some other simple ways that contractors can get started with marketing?
Teresa: Joining trade groups - that's very, very popular. You know, the biggest, I guess, hurdle is creating your brand and creating your reputation. And so being part of those trade groups lends a lot of credibility to someone starting out in the business.
And I like the social media, especially if you're able to talk about some of your customer feedback, because again, building that reputation and as you get really good feedback from your customers that tends to grow your business. I know myself when I'm looking for a trade contractor, I may go on a trade group like Angie’s List or something similar and look and see what the feedback. So I think that's another popular way to improve your marketing.
Carolyn: I also, like when I see that the contractor or the employee, whoever it is responds to the people that are writing to their potential clients or their customers, I always think that's a really nice touch. And it says a lot about that person that you're looking to hire.
Teresa: Yes. I think that's important. Uh, you know, another part of that is staying in close contact or in touch with your clients constantly being in touch with them. And being responsive as well.
Carolyn: Yeah, no, I agree. You know, it's really common in the contracting trade for business owners like George, they often have an apprentice. Are there any specific insurance implications that contractors specifically should consider when they take someone on, in that capacity?
Teresa: And I love to see that, because we have a shortage of labor in the construction business. And I think if you can get someone in an apprentice role. What I like about it is you can train them the way they need to be trained.
But I think it's also important though, to make sure that they're trained properly and have a formal safety training program. And even if you're a small contractor, you could still work with companies like Selective and our Risk Management department to help them craft those formal safety programs, because that's so important that they're trained properly.
And one of the best examples I see is in the form of contractors that need drivers and they don't have the proper CDL license. And we also have a shortage of CDL drivers out there. And I say not to cut corners. If you need a CDL driver to make sure that you train and hire the appropriate CDL drivers.
Carolyn: Yeah, that's a really good point because you're trying to cut corners. Maybe you've got a friend who could just do the driving for you or whatever the case may be, and they're not properly licensed. And then that could be a whole can of worms you weren't planning on.
Teresa: Yes. And the most recent in the news, not so long ago, there was an 18 year old driver that had a fatality and he was driving a big rig and obviously he’s18 years old, did not have the proper license. So that's the most important part is the appropriate training for the client or for, excuse me for the employee.
Carolyn: All right. Very eye-opening. Thank you so much, Teresa Cates, for being with us today. We appreciate it.
Teresa: Oh, you are welcome.
Outro:
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Uniquely Small Biz with George of George's Drains and Selective’s Teresa Cates. If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave us a review in the podcast store and tune in next month. For more inspiring stories from real small business owners. I'm Carolyn McCardell and this has been Uniquely Small Biz from Selective Insurance.