Carolyn: Welcome back to season two of Uniquely Small Biz by Selective Insurance, a podcast for small business owners to share their inspiring stories. I'm Carolyn McCardle, and we are so excited to be bringing you another round of insightful conversations with small business owners who are as unique as their ventures. On today's episode, dust off your clubs and put on your gloves; we're talking with the president, owner, and operator of Pull the Pin golf shop, Thomas Mattaini. He talks with us about how he offers services that big box stores can't while helping create confidence on the course. Then later, hear Selective’s Vice President of Small Business Mike McMullin give his thoughts on the conversation.
Carolyn: So the name of your company is Pull the Pin, and I'm curious as to what the story is behind the name of the company. I'm a horrible golfer. I've been on a course a couple of times, but I don't know the term ‘pull the pin’. There's got to be a tie-in, obviously, with the sport. So tell me about that first.
Thomas: I've always wanted to play golf with confidence, and when you pull the pin, it's when you take the flag out of the hole. So, usually, you do that when either you're chipping or putting, and the way we describe it is it's a subtle sign to the guys who are playing with that you think you're going to hole your next shot. And that's the kind of confidence we want to instill in all of our customers. So, whether they're coming in to get fit for new clubs, whether they're coming in for a lesson or whether they're just looking for a new polo that they think they're going to be the sharpest dressed in their foursome, everything we do revolves around the idea of developing confidence. So we decided to go with, Pull the Pin.
Carolyn: I love that. Is it surreal to see that your dream sort of came to life fairly quickly? It sounds like.
Thomas: Well, yes and no, it is surreal, but it wasn't quickly. I'm only 27 now, but I started this journey when I was about 20 years old. I was already working here at what was previously Golf, Et Cetera. I, you know, really had a great experience. I started to kind of into more of a management role, and, you know, we had talked to the owner and I about how she had taken over from her late husband, and she was looking to move on. So, I'd started to build my business plan when I returned to school with the head of my department, the business department, and the head of marketing. I had a partner at the time; we offered her exactly what she wanted, and she decided to turn us down anyway. That's when I had just graduated college, so then, fast forward two years later, and I had just gotten to the last round of an interview with a different company to be a cider sales representative. And they told me I didn't get the job, so I was pretty disappointed. 30 minutes later, I got a text from the old owner of this store. “Hey, are you still interested in buying?” And so I was just like, oh, she's probably going to want like an absurd amount of money. We asked her what she wanted, and we ended up buying it for 30% of what we originally offered. So, we took over right in the middle of COVID, made the name change in March of 2021, and so far, we've doubled in size.
Carolyn: Oh, wow.
Thomas: So really, although I've only been the owner for just over a year, it's really been a 5/6 year journey just to get to this point. So.
Carolyn: Wow, awesome. Good for you. Do you feel like you're doing what you were meant to do in life? Like all this kind of happened for a reason, and you wound up where you are doing what you're doing.
Thomas: Yeah. There are just too many things that lined up that this doesn't just happen. Like, you know, I got this job as a sales associate in college because my mom walked in and saw there was a sign for a sales job, and she's like you should apply there, you love golf. And then it turned into me leaving school, right when I had to, and then moved into a management position. And it all just like all lined up. And even the fact that we got turned down the first time was the biggest blessing because if we would've taken over, we would have bought it for 70% more, and nine months later, we would've closed for COVID and probably gone bankrupt. So, you just can't make it up.
Carolyn: Wow. Does your mom keep reminding you, like, I'm the reason that you're successful because she can, she can get away
Thomas: She should. I'm sure she could take even more credit than that. But yeah,
Carolyn: No, that's fantastic, though. So what makes you guys, what makes Pull the Pin specifically? Because Golf, Et Cetera was obviously a huge chain. They were everywhere. They were even - I'm in California - they were out here. What makes you guys unique?
Thomas: I think that the biggest thing for us is our people. I mean, we're a staff of six guys, all of us who do fittings, though. We have multiple certifications through these different vendors and such. So you know that you're working with somebody that plays golf. One of my requirements for working here is you have a USGA handicap because I think the biggest problem with chain stores as you go in and you could get somebody who is very knowledgeable, or you could get a high school soccer kid, that's never touched a club in his life. And they told him, Hey, look for these numbers, and if it comes up, sell it to them.
Carolyn: It's so true.
Thomas: So you're getting this specialization customer experience that you don't get anywhere else. So, we've invested a lot into our equipment, invested a lot in through our guys, and ultimately that's what sets us apart from even other small businesses that are competing with us.
Carolyn: It's so true because I could walk in, I play tennis, so same thing, right? I can walk into a tennis shop and the person behind the counter, I'm going to be able to tell if they play or not. The lingo they use, you know, the vocabulary that they use, the knowledge of how tight to string a racket. Like there are certain things that you just know and anybody coming into your store, that's a decent golfer is going to know if it's somebody legit behind the counter, or like you said, just like a high school soccer kid.
Thomas: You know, I like to think our efforts really do show through because, you know, we have been very fortunate to get a lot of really great reviews. I mean, in our first year, we had 50 reviews - 49 of them were five star. One of them was a four-star that sounded like a five star review. And maybe they missed the fifth, I don’t know.
Carolyn: I think it was an accident. Yeah.
Thomas: I mean, even with our part-time guys, I mean, I play in a league here in Lancaster where we travel around. And one of my part-time guys is a former head pro at Harrisburg country clubs. So I mean, he just, and we just know each other, he was like, yeah, I'll come help you out. And it's like, literally no matter who you're working with. Any of the six of us, you're working with somebody who knows the game for sure.
Carolyn: Well, and your dedication to not only the game but to your product, into your business. I was looking at your social media, and you guys are so good about responding to people. If they comment you write back, you know, and I think that says a lot about you. If I'm doing business with a company and I'm on their social media, and I see there are a bunch of comments in there unanswered, or just from my perspective, ignored. I'm thinking, well, what, what does that say about the company? And I noticed that you write everybody back. I saw on one of your posts you had a bunch of shares on it, and I thought, okay, these guys are on top of social media. So how does social media play a role for you? How important is that to you?
Thomas: Well, absolutely. I mean, first of all, with the first part there, responding is not that hard. I mean, if somebody is sending you a message, a comment, whatever, they're trying to give you, their money, at least you can do is just be like, Hey, I'm willing to hear you out. Thank you for reaching out to me. We appreciate you finding us over somebody else. And I know I'd seen that in the past with, I mean, our whole social media when I worked here was not a major factor whatsoever. Put virtually no effort into it. Comments would go unanswered, messages - direct messages - would go on answered. Crazy.
Carolyn: From people trying to buy.
Thomas: They’d literally be like, hi, I'd like to buy a thousand dollars set of irons from you, but you can't give them the five minutes to respond. It's really difficult. And I think that's a huge thing, whether you’re a major company or whether you're a small business, but especially a small business. What you're selling is, Hey, your local people like you know who you're working with, and we care about the fact that you're wanting to shop with us. You're not one of our million customers; you’re one of maybe a hundred customers that month or something, you know? So it doesn't take much effort for us to reply. And I can't even tell you the number of times in the last year, where if someone responds, the first thing they say is, wait, wait, you actually answered, or wow, that was fast. Now I grew up in a generation where I had a smartphone since I was 12 years old, probably. So getting a notification, whether it's a text or Facebook message, it's just like a natural reaction and be like, yeah, yeah, I'll answer you real quick. And my wife gets on me about a little bit. She's like, we're on a date. I'm like, I'm trying to make us some money - trying to pay for this date right now. No, she's awesome. She owned her own small business before me, and so she's been a huge help as well. So with social media as a whole, it's huge. I mean, to get your name out there. I mean, already when I worked here, our biggest challenge was like once a week, someone would be like, I've lived in Lancaster my whole life, never knew you were here, and that just can't happen. And now, with the name change, we had to double down on that, and we only have maybe 2,500 followers across social media, but for every follower you get, and they like one of your posts, share one of your posts, you're gaining hundreds more. So, I like to think of it that our reach within 2,500 people is a lot bigger than just those 2,500. So, it's been a huge impact. It's hard for me to go out, honestly, downtown in at a restaurant or a bar and have someone not come up to me and be like, you're that golf guy? I'm like, yeah, yeah.
Carolyn: Aww, you're the mayor! Associate mayor.
Thomas: So they're like, I love your social media, and it's always a great thing. I take a lot of pride in it because we all do it in-house ourselves, and we try to express ourselves, let our own personalities shine through it because ultimately, that's what we're selling is ourselves over anything else. You know, I talked a lot about selling the idea of confidence, but on top of that, you're selling working with us specifically. So for that to shine through and for us to get recognized, whether we're at the golf course or a restaurant or whatever, it's pretty cool
Carolyn: Well, your motto is “Be Confident, Pull the Pin.“
Thomas: Yeah, absolutely.
Carolyn: So while we're on the topic of confidence, how much does confidence play in a role in your case of running a business, of operating a business?
Thomas: The motto that I came up with was as much for me as it was for anybody else. You know you don't start a small business and succeed by playing tentatively by making moves that are, you know, marginal. You have to go all in, or you're not going in at all. And one of my favorite books is Find Your Yellow Tux by Jesse Cole. He actually owns the Savannah Bananas. If you know anything about them, they’re a minor league baseball team. I actually have an email relationship with him now, the owner there, because we communicate back on social media and stuff about ever since he's helped me, you know, taking over this business, but he talks about going all in. Living in his apartment with his roommates being cockroaches and because he dumped all of his money into it. And obviously, that's an extreme example, but to make it as a small business, you don't do it by acting without confidence or not going all in. So, I try to apply that motto and the idea of pulling the pin to all of my business decisions as well. And if it's a gut feeling that I have, I know I have the background in it. So just trust my intuition on it, and hopefully, it works out, and ultimately, it's not poker, though. You're not going all-in with every decision, you know, but you're making calculated decisions, and you're going to miss it sometimes, but hopefully, you hit more than you miss and come out on top.
Carolyn: What have you missed? Like what have been some of your challenges along the way, because certainly no doubt you've been successful, but there are some setbacks here and there, and then you take two steps forward and maybe a step or a half step back. So, what have you encountered along the way that you would consider sort of a challenge?
Thomas: Yeah. I mean, we've taken some big risks marketing-wise, you know, worked with one of our local baseball teams here made a pretty sizable contribution in order to advertise with them. And I don't think it was a total failure, but for the amount of money we put up versus the money we probably got back, probably didn't make it all back. But it's one of those things you live, and you learn. And we were in that phase where we had just changed our name, and we were just doing everything and anything to make people recognize our logo and recognize who we are and what we do. So honestly, we've been very fortunate not to have any major flops yet, but hopefully, we can continue that streak.
Carolyn: Yeah. Well, like you said, live and learn, which is, you know, some people would say, oh, that's a throwaway term. But if you really think about it, you took a risk with that. It wasn't as successful as you would hope, and you do take something from that. You know, going forward that, okay, this didn't work for us, but maybe this would, and you try something different.
I mean, there's a lot to be said for that. Like the mistakes do make you stronger sometimes.
Thomas: Yeah. And that maybe, you know, I don't even think I was a complete failure, but I know early on we tried to do some, you know, some “clip out” - I'm not going to say the name of the company or anything - but basically, clip out deals or whatever. And so if they get the magazine, they can cut it out, bring it in for like a discount or whatever. And I think we had spent like over a thousand dollars on it and maybe had three people bring it back in, you know, so that obviously wasn't a huge thing for us, but we learned that where we like to put our advertising. And right now, a lot of that, we like to focus on social media. I know it's always changing because you're competing with a lot of people on Facebook advertisements and Google ads and stuff, but we see the biggest return there. You know, we can do a $200 boost post, reach 20,000 people, and if we get two or three fittings out of it, we just tripled our money.
So I mean, or even more. We try to be strategic about where we put our advertising dollars, although we're not afraid to put them out there in general. When I was in college, we used to run simulations of these companies. You’d basically run your own company, and I think it was like you’re a camera company, and you would decide how much you're going to price it for how much you're going to advertise, who you're going to sign as a sponsor or whatever. And every week, I'd be like, we got to put more in advertising, more in advertising, and my group mates would get so annoyed with me. Like, that's what you say every week. I'm like, but you have to, it's like necessary. And so, I take that same approach here. You know, I don't know that statistic off the top of my head, but they're supposed to put this like 7% of your gross income into advertising if you want to be stand-out at all in your market. I live by that. I don't know if we quite reached that this year, but we definitely weren't afraid to put some advertising dollars in there.
Carolyn: Well, in all fairness, it was a tricky year. Last year was certainly a tricky year, of course, talking about 2020. So let's talk about that for a minute. During the pandemic, I remember hearing that golf courses were sort of the first to re-open, right? Cause you could go out one or two - I think they were doing twosomes in the beginning. You could go at two at a time and play, at least here in California. And I thought, well, this is great for the golf industry. It's great for people in general, you get back out there, and you get to play again. But, how did you pivot during the pandemic, you know, before you were able to re-open? That's got to be so tough, and I always love hearing from people what they did to sort of survive.
Thomas: So that's where I got lucky because we didn't get the business right out the gate. I didn't take over until October 2020. So I got to miss a decent amount of that, but I can talk about my experience as a golfer as we re-opened. I remember May 1st, 2020, that's when they were going to re-open; I was freaking out. I grabbed my putter started hitting putts in my living room right away.
Carolyn: As you should have, as a true golfer!
Thomas: I played a casual 27 rounds in the month of May that year, because what else were we going to do? But I know that it was hard because the golf courses were open, but as a non-essential business, this place was still closed. So, eventually, they did re-open in June. Our negotiations started in July, and I took over in October, and we weren't full capacity, but we're a specialty shop. It wasn't like, I think we could have like a hundred people in here. There's usually no more than like, 10. So it's not like we were ever worried about capacity or anything, but our biggest challenges have definitely been more supply chain-related due to COVID than anything. In terms of navigating the rest, you just tried to let people know, Hey, you know, well, we're going to be masked. We're going to try social distance, and we're going to try and do what we can.
Carolyn: I think people have become accustomed now to doing whatever it takes, to be able to get back out there, whether it's playing golf or whatever their favorite activity is. It's like, okay, let's just do this. So we can at least live as close to normal lives as we can. So, what do you think is next for you guys? That being said? What's the future bringing to you?
Thomas: Well, we're trying to dive deeper into our specialty of fitting, so our main thing here is that you come in and whether you're looking for a new iron or drivers or whatever, we find the exact specs that are right for you. Whether that's the correct clubhead, shaft, even grip, and then some physical attributes where they lie or lengthen. We're doubling down, we're bringing in some specialty brands, such as Edel golf, which is a brand that maybe not a lot of people have heard of if you're not a diehard golfer, but they offer some great fitting tools that are going to make our fittings even more in-depth and give our customers a lot more value. So right now, we're in the phase of just looking for new accounts to bring in that we can give greater value to our customers.
Carolyn: Where can people find you on social? Because I want people to follow you. Like I said earlier, you do such a great job with social media. I want you to have more followers. So where can people find you on social?
Thomas: Well, I have it right here in our little box here for Thomas Mattaini, and then it's @PullthePinLanc. We do our own podcast, so I always throw our Instagram handle in there. So Pull the Pin Lanc is where you can find us. And yeah, I mean, we're always looking to grow social media. The more people we can reach on a “free basis”, the better, you know, so we're always looking to grow social media one way or the other, and we had something we just enjoy as well. So we're on like I said, Instagram PullThePinLanc, Pull the Pin Lancaster on Facebook. We have a podcast Twitter, but it's actually run by somebody that doesn't work here, he’s just my buddy that we do a podcast with.
Carolyn: It's always good to have a podcasting buddy that can hook you up.
Thomas: Exactly. Yeah. But yeah, those are the best places to find us at. Yeah, we're just excited for 2022 and trying to combat the challenges of supply chain and then all the fun stuff right now.
Carolyn: Well, we wish you nothing but the best. Thank you for taking time to talk to us today. It was really nice meeting you, and good luck with everything. Go pull the pin!
Thomas: Yes, thank you, thank you.
Carolyn: Joining us now to discuss the importance of creating a unique customer experience and investing in your staff is President of Small Business at Selective, Mike McMullin. My first question for you, Mike, is, do you golf? Probably the most important question I'm going to ask you today.
Mike: You know, I do. I don't golf as much as I would like, but I do go. I guess I'd say I'm probably more likely to be one of Tom's customers looking for lessons than I am one of his employees.
Carolyn: Well, I was wondering because I thought, well, if you golf, you probably really enjoyed this episode because obviously it was about Pull the Pin golf shop and about his story. So I'm glad I get to talk to you about this. So, Tom spoke a little bit about his unique approach to the customer experience for Pull the Pin. It focuses on instilling confidence in each person who comes in. So from your perspective, what would you say is the most important thing a small business can do to set itself apart from its like big-box competition? What would you say the most important thing is?
Mike: Yeah, you know, I would say it’s to really understand your value proposition, you know, what really sets you apart and what makes you unique? And in Tom's case, his passion isn't just about golf products, but it's about instilling confidence in his customers, which really has become his life's purpose and why he started the business, in a pandemic no less. And for any small business owner, I think focusing on that overall customer experience like Tom has done is it's certainly a great start, you know, taking into consideration things. How is your experience in the shop different than a big box store, or are you able to make a personal connection? Are you're listening to what your customers really want? You know, for Selective, we serve customers that run hundreds of different types of businesses, and we know how critical it is to listen and that each business is unique. You know, most small business owners are so good at bringing their passion to their work. They should just have the confidence to stay true to their values and just be themselves as they create the experience that their customers want. And that will allow them to be successful. Right? And in Tom's case, the experience for his customers, it really starts with his interactions in social media, as well as his, you know, his focus in marketing.
Carolyn: He does such a good job on social media, doesn't he? Responding to everybody, getting back to them quickly, answering their questions. I think that's huge, especially in this day and age; social media is so important.
Mike: Yes, no, I agree. I agree.
Carolyn: Yeah. I just really loved his story. It's interesting for you to say, you know, just go for it, but easier said than done, of course. But that is the one thing that I've heard with these unique small businesses that we've talked to throughout this podcast and the series is that they all took a risk. They're all small businesses. They all had to start from somewhere. They weren't part of a big corporation. And we talked to a different one. It was a husband and wife who were in their garage at Tiny Kitchen Candle Company, and they started that like out of their garage, and they both quit their jobs to do this. But, like Tom and like Tiny Kitchen Candle Company, following your passion and really getting behind something that you believe in is what has led them to success. And I think that's really neat.
Mike: Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. And that's what really drives the small business owners, you know, their drive is the passion for, you know, for the business from which they're, they're starting.
Carolyn: Yeah. And I love that about Tom too, is, you touched on this in the beginning, that he actually cares about his customers and he wants to make their lives better. I think that's really neat because it shows that he genuinely cares. And what a difference, when a business owner actually truly cares about you and is not just trying to sell you, have a transactional sale.
Mike: Yeah. And I see, as any small business owner, I think it's critical to play to your strengths. Right, and leverage what you know. You know, Tom, clearly, he's done that, in applying the concepts, some of the things that he learned in college related to running a business, but it's also important to step back and recognize what you don't know. And when you might need to solicit some help, right? In Tom's case, I mean, even as customers, they know they need help. They need help with their swing or, in buying the right specialized equipment to improve their game. But they've made a decision to come to him, right? To consult with him as an expert and him and his team as an expert. There’s a time and a place for any small business owner to take, I'll call it a lesson of sorts, and consult with the experts. And I don't know if you remember Carolyn, back in season one, in one of the episodes, Francine Love, she was the owner of the Love Law Firm.
Carolyn: The attorney. Yes.
Mike: She talked about, you know, making sure you have three friends that you can depend upon, you know, a lawyer, an accountant, you know, an insurance agent.
Carolyn: That's right.
Mike: We know that the greater the risk, the greater the reward, but, you know, by consulting with some professionals that can help mitigate some of the unexpected. Like for instance, you know, an accountant can help you understand the impacts if a financial investment doesn't pan out. Or an insurance agent can certainly help you understand how to protect your business from any potential losses as the result of damage or injury cost to others. So, you know, I guess the real answer here is, and in terms of advice to small business owners, it's just knowing when to ask for help. You know, it's probably a good lesson for all of us, actually.
Carolyn: It is. It could apply to any of us. That's for sure. It's so funny that we're pulling that from Francine love. Like what a compliment to her back on season one, that she was absolutely right! That's fantastic advice because, you know, Tom took a really ambitious approach to his marketing. And so I was going to ask you, you know, when it comes to somebody who's just starting out, somebody who, really, their training is college. Like what would they do? And I think that's a very good general way for them to start out is just apply those three principles, have those three friends in your back pocket. So you've got to sort of a sense of security when you're starting out. I think that's very smart. So thank you, Francine, if you're listening also. So Pull the Pin, they invest very heavily in their staff by getting them professional certifications. They hire former golf pros. They require them to have a USDA handicap… or it’s a USG handicap. Is there any benefit from an insurance standpoint to ensuring your employees hold professional certifications and having that prior expertise in that particular industry?
Mike: Yeah. You know that's a great question. I guess I'd say that formal training is good, obviously, and it does help ensure that your people and your employees are trained in understanding how to do whatever the task is at hand and how to do it correctly. You know, I guess a certified machine shop operator is presumably less likely to be injured, right? If they are certified in their craft or someone who maybe has taken a risk management class on defensive driving, they're less likely to get into an accident with one of your vehicles. You know, I guess some insurance companies, they might require some certifications for specialized work or years of experience, and your insurance agent can sort all that out for you, but take insurance out of the equation. It's just good common sense to have expertise in your business. And I think another benefit is if you can offer to pay for that type of training or certifications for your employees, or even just support them with some time off or whatever it may take to prepare for that, it could be well-received as well, to create a deeper sense of engagement or commitment as they see that you're investing in them and in their future,
Carolyn: It's totally an investment in them. And I've been on that end of it, where I'm the employee, where the employer says, we're going to pay for you to take these classes because we want you to understand our product better or whatever, from a sales standpoint. And I can't tell you the difference that makes, instead of feeling like you're out there on your own, just trying to figure it out and hope you're doing the right thing. You've got an employer who really wants to zero in and focus and make it the best you can be.
Mike: That's right. And if you dig a little, you may find that some of your vendors or partners, they may offer some of these certifications or services at steep discounts or even for free. Even at Selective, we have, any customer has access to what we call Safety Now training, and that's where small business owners and their employees can learn how to develop safety procedures, and there's training tools and online videos, instructor-led stuff. But it's free, and the services are out there. So all you have to do is just look to find them.
Carolyn: And to ask, I mean, what a difference, right? One more question for you, Mike. And this is a fun question. So you know how, and I have a feeling you're going to know the answer to this. Golf is one of those sports where a lot of deals a lot of conversations are done on the course. You go out to golf because it's fun, but you're also doing a little bit of networking while you're out there. How can you take those conversations and sort of that environment and move it to the retail space and still achieve what you want to achieve from on the golf course, but in an actual retail space?
Mike: Yeah, I, you know, I think there are probably several different ways in which that could be done. And I've, you know, I went back and listened to a few of the episodes that we had in season one and, you know, one of the common themes that, that continues to resonate and it resonated with Tom as well is to want to be part of a community. Right? And create a sense of belongingness for his customers. And if you can make that connection in the community, you know, by offering the use of the facility for, as you refer to it as sort of a social environment, right. Where you potentially could do team building events, group lessons. That might be a way to sort of make that connection with the facility as well as with the community and make, as you say, making the space more social, it’s not that different than leveraging on from a social media platform to the extent that he already is. I think another avenue from a community standpoint and a sense of belongingness is considering supporting nonprofits or supporting local schools or sports teams. Just finding a way to give back. You'll find that if you can establish an extended team of people who are rooting for you, you know, in your community, you're going to be successful. So, that's one of the best parts of my job. I get to advocate for and support small business owners every day, just to make sure that they have access to the products and services to help protect, you know, their growing businesses.
Carolyn: Yeah. Isn't that great. Helping one another, everybody wins in the end. It's a great feeling. You go home at the end of the day, and you feel like, wow, I did something good. I made a difference today, and I'm still running a successful business like that's the ideal. As always, Mike McMullin, thank you so much for joining us. I love, love, love our conversations.
Mike: Thanks Carolyn; I was happy to be here.
Carolyn: Thank you for listening to this episode of Uniquely Small Biz with Thomas Mattaini of Pull the Pin and Selective’s Mike McMullin. If you enjoy the podcast, leave us a review in the podcast store and tune in next month for more inspiring stories from real small business owners.